In this FRONTPAGE story as part of Not in London, acclaimed model Kai-Isaiah Jamal sits down with stylist Rudy Simba Betty for an intimate conversation about style, identity, and being a muse to Wales Bonner.
A British Fashion Awards nominee for Model of the Year in 2023, a member of the Business of Fashion 500 since 2002, and figure whom the late Virgil Abloh once told Vogue was the “voice of their generation,” Kai-Isaiah Jamal is no stranger to getting their flowers. And not just for the work they do on runways or in front of the cameras, but also for the multi-hyphenate creative’s tireless commitment to activism, inclusion, and visibility. Oh, and did we mention that Jamal is a poet, too? But for all the accolades they’ve received for the groundbreaking presence they’ve become in the world of fashion and all that it touches, Jamal is equally effusive with praise when it comes to those who have inspired them.
For example, during this conversation with Congo-born French stylist and consultant Rudy Simba Betty, who has also recently become part of the 27-year-old model’s team; they suggested getting started in a rather unique way. “I thought we should introduce each other; I could intro you, and you can intro me,” Jamal said, before excitedly describing all that Betty means to them. “[Rudy] doesn't care about clout, doesn't care about ego, doesn't care about all of these things that are cultural currencies at the moment,” Jamal gushed. “[He] really cares about building relationships.
“Rudy fleshes out the hundred and million thoughts that sometimes make no sense in my mind, and he refines them into a silhouette or into a look or into a character that we're tapping into. That’s his special power.”
It was enough to almost move Betty to tears. And maybe the ability to move people is Jamal’s special power. This Croydon-born force of nature is having a moment: magazine covers, blue-chip runway shows, and coveted campaigns and partnerships are coming in at a major clip. But as a Black non-binary trans figure in an industry that still struggles with inclusion and diversity, Jamal’s very presence is as important as it is groundbreaking. When they lost out to Paloma Elsesser for the aforementioned Model of the Year prize, Jamal was quoted in The Standard saying that they were meant to be there because no trans person has ever been on the list. For them, it’s about the big picture stuff.
Whether it’s their vocal stance on trans rights (Jamal has publicly called out the UK government for trans cleansing) or the importance of Black creatives being able to take ownership of (and tell) Black stories or the critical role that the ghetto fabulous plays in their fashion education, Jamal embodies their values very fully. And perhaps it’s that intentional approach to living exactly as they are that has made relationships with the likes of Grace Wales Bonner even more empowering. “Grace really knows how to listen and really knows how to learn and is not scared about things that maybe haven't crossed her mind before,” they said of fashion’s designer-of-the-moment. “I could go on forever about how much I respect her as a creative, as a woman of color and as a young designer who's stuck with it and is now seeing the real fruits of her labor.”
On that same British Fashion Awards red carpet, Betty and Jamal collaborated with Bonner on a bespoke tuxedo that featured a sash embroidered with the words somewhere we live forever. For many models, it might be enough to show up to one of fashion’s biggest nights in custom Wales Bonner. But not for this trio. Jamal added that “being able to wear Grace, being able to tie in the sash element with poetry, it was a love of letter to Blackness and to queerness and to transness.”
Jamal called in from London and Betty from Paris to discuss everything from the impact of Busta Rhymes, how London informs their creativity, the first time they met Grace Wales Bonner, and what it really means to put on your Sunday’s best. (There may have even been a Da Brat reference.) Below, for brevity and clarity, an edited excerpt of their conversation.
Kai-Isaiah Jamal: Rudy, for intros, I thought we should introduce each other.
Rudy and I had the honor of working together on an indie mag cover three years ago. And we just had this incredible rapport and understanding, and I felt really seen as talent in that space. I always introduce Rudy as more than a stylist. I think Rudy embodies the idea of someone who is in love with fashion. And he is someone similar to me who doesn't care about clout, doesn't care about ego, doesn't care about all of these things that are cultural currencies at the moment, and just really cares about building relationships.
I feel like a fan! Oh my God!
Rudy Simba Betty: I'm just going to go in a corner and cry. We can just stop here. Thank you so much. It is also just really hard to take on from this. I would almost use the exact same words to describe you. And I felt like this really crystallized our relationship. It always feels like a conversation; there are a billion ideas and a conversation happening all the time.
I think you embody the word “talent” in such a graceful way. It’s hard to put you in a box. And your artistry –it's not something that you clock in and clock out of. It's who you are. It's how you express yourself, how you talk to people, how you engage with people, your connection to the world around you. That's your talent in the biggest sense of the word.
Jamal: OK! Let's do the quickfire because this is fun.
Who were some of your favorite brands growing up? I feel like this is where we're going to have the difference as well from growing up in an African household and also in France and also Caribbean household in London.
Betty: There's something really funny about the structure of, let's say, an African family or a Caribbean family. We used to talk a lot about, like Sunday best and put your best clothes on. You always make sure you look a certain way. And I always think of my aunts as those YSL models from the '70s, there's something about them. I feel like that was a lot of my early affiliation with fashion and also just knowing brands and designers even before I became actively interested in it. So somewhere between Versace and YSL.
Jamal: I love that these are meant to be quickfires, but I actually don't even know how to do quickfire. I'm a waffler, so let's go into them.
I guess that was when I really understood our match in understanding cultural importance in fashion: this obsession with, like you say, Sunday best and ghetto fabulousness. And how Black people especially, and I think also queer people, use clothing, and often designer clothing, as a way to almost socially mobilize.
My dad dressed the way he did because he was like, as an immigrant kid, the first thing anyone is going to take from you is how you look. He cut his dreads off because at that time it was an unprofessional look to have. So these kinds of compromises that you had to make and this kind of thinking forward. Yeah, aunts in Versace heels that they definitely can't afford, but they're like, I need to prove to everyone here that I can afford them. And I really love that.
But I think streetwear was kind of what was accessible to me at the time. So my whole adolescence, I was looking at the US. I would look at FUBU, Avirex and see what trickled over to the UK. These were integral points of street culture, and I found chicness in it.
This is why I love Wales Bonner so much. Because it is about how we formalize streetwear. I always say that a tilted cap feels very chic, like glasses hanging off someone's face feels chic. All of these things like Air Forces untied feels chic to me.
Jamal: Okay. Who's your favorite fashion icon? I feel like we have one of them and it is definitely the same.
Betty: Would you be Mr. Dennis Rodman?
Jamal: Dennis Rodman. Oh, I actually looked at a photo of him this morning and I was just like, fuck, it just doesn't get better than him.
Betty: It really doesn't! We always say that people that we consider fashion icons, it almost has nothing to do with fashion. It's just the way they are.
Jamal: Exactly!
Betty: It's the attitude, but also the fact that you care enough, obviously you're interested in the way you present yourself because it's part of your language, but there's also such a huge element of not caring.
Jamal: Yesterday I found this folder on my laptop of my obsession with Busta Rhymes. He was wearing halter-neck leather tops, dresses to red carpets, and full Indian marriage regalia. I grew up around such an idea of Black masculinity that when I found the Princes, the Dennis Rodmans, the Busta Rhymes, those people who then played with it, I was like, okay, I'm obsessed with you.
And then on the flip side, Da Brat and Missy Elliot, and all the girls who dressed up as little boys but kept their feminine in check. I lived for that era. Now all the girls look the same!
Jamal: What is the most important part of an outfit?
Betty: Depending on the day, but I check the shoe. We can build an entire outfit just based on the shoe. If you want something that feels anchored and centered, the closest thing to Earth is your shoe and then you build from it. I'm also obsessed with the way people walk.
Jamal: This is true. I would say shoe, definitely. And I would also say a bag or lack of a bag. I saw Dionne Warwick walk onto the Grammy's carpet with her cigarette and her lighter in her pocket. And I just thought, As if I can't be more obsessed with you.
Also, this would be my red flag, but I can't be without a white vest on a gray tracksuit. I just can't. Whenever anyone comes to my house, they're like, "Why are you always in a vest on a jogger?" I feel like that's my second skin. When I'm in that I feel like I'm not thinking about my body in clothes whereas I guess other clothes maybe make me have a conversation with my body more. But It's actually the most fuckboi element of myself. And maybe I kind of love that.
Jamal: Okay. What about fashion “icks”?
Rudy: It's the whole -core thing. Everything is a -core now! And every week there’s a new one.
Jamal: It's white-shirt-core! No, you just work in the office.
I think my fashion “ick” is…I hate the fact that this generation or the generation maybe below us is obsessed with [the idea] that they've discovered everything. And that's where the language of -core comes through. And it's like, "No, babe, this silhouette has been used so many times." Or the trend of the dark line around the lip. I'm like, "Did none of you have aunties that were doing this when you were five?" This is not new.
The more we get used to social media, the easier it is to digest loads of current imagery and be like, "Oh, this is a trend that started now." And actually, no, this has been around for decades or centuries and predominantly usually comes from Black and POC cultures.
Jamal: What is your favorite project that we've worked on thus for? I feel like we'll probably have the same project.
Betty: The British Fashion Awards. We discussed this many times: It was more than you being nominated for Model of the Year. It also came with everything that it meant for you, that it meant for the culture and for us to be able to translate this very personal experience for you, but to translate it into cloth, to translate culture, to literally sewing culture into it.
And also working with someone as amazing as Grace. And also the space that they created for us to be able to just experiment and try stuff and have fun with it. From the beginning to the end that's the whole process that I find the most exciting, but also rewarding. And also just the collaboration with you, with our team, and with Grace and her team.
Jamal: Yeah, it just really worked. Everything is my favorite. Every time we do something I'm like, "Oh my God, this is fab." But I think the BFAs were so special. It was such a moment to know that we were symbolizing so much more than an award show. We were symbolizing so much more than a nomination, as monumental and as incredibly humbling and as honored as I felt to be in that roster and even acknowledged by a institute as big as the BFAs or the BFC, I just feel like being able to wear Grace, being able to tie in on the sash element about poetry, and it also being a love of letter to Blackness and to queerness and to transness.
I think all of those elements working together just made it even more special. And I also feel like even that night we went through the ranges. We did the sleek, beautiful, androgynous, cropped blazer with tails, and we had that real elegant and also almost like a note to ballroom culture. And then we had the fun after-party look, which was also just so decadent and royal, and fit into that YSL/Versace pocket of looking at me in my Sunday best.
And it was so fun.
Jamal: I want us to talk about Grace and why she feels like one of London's most important brands right now, and in a global sense as well.
I think it was around 2019 when I first was introduced to Grace. I think there were a lot of coats, and all the models were just in front of all of this gathered fabric. And for me, instantly I was like, "Oh my God, this is [like] being in someone's house and they have the washing hanging up." Again, instantly, I was already transported into a space where I was like, "Okay, this reference though, it's quiet and though it's not us in a field with the sheets thrown over, it has this element to it and it has this sense of..." Or maybe it was a physical show and that was the backdrop, but either way it was just such a small detail which evokes such a story. And I was like, "Okay, I'm obsessed. I'm in."
Betty: That feeling of connecting the dots. It came quite early in our thought process of reaching out to Grace and her team because she also has her roots in culture. And in conversation, I feel like as a brand and as a designer, she's very, how do you say?, smart but smart is not the word – eloquent, I would say. The way she touches on culture and otherness. The way she brings references from her past or from cultural past or global past and then retraces it within collections. She's a great commentator and observer of culture.
Jamal: Anyone can wear this, but you must acknowledge the roots, references, and ideologies before you consume. I feel like a lot of people think that Wales Bonner is a new brand, and it's not really a new brand. There's a legacy that's been created for a while. In Grace's work there's this familiarity, but there's also this sense of exciting and fresh and new. And for me, I'm very obsessed with the way that she reworks originals. You look at the adidas tracksuits, to suddenly see it in a different format, to suddenly see it with a quarter zip, to see it in this... I don't know what the technical term is, but it's almost like woven cotton. Again, that is taking that informal into a formal space, and I think that's amazing.
Shout out to the girls of London, from Bianca Saunders to Martine Rose to Grace. I feel like they are just really killing it. I just feel like the Black girls in London right now, they're doing it together.
Betty: They’re doing it! When I lived in London, which was a lot of my formative years, it felt really community based and encouraging and supportive.
Jamal: London informs every part of me. I wouldn't create the way I create if it wasn't for London. My survival in this industry comes from growing up in South London. It gave me a thick skin. Now if a casting agent is like,” I don't want you for something,” I'm like, “Do you know how many people I've heard [say] that they don't want me for something?” Okay, let's go on to the next thing. It gave me that, and it also nurtured my sensitivity and my vulnerabilities.
Yeah, I feel like I really was out of being in love with London for a hot sec and I ran around the world for a little bit and now I'm kind of like, you know what? No, there is a magic to it and it does build very interesting people and it also brings very interesting people together. And I wouldn't be here without it. So for all the days that I can be like, it's cold and miserable and gray and no one has any taste and everyone likes clout and – the diva that I can fall into sometimes – there's also a brilliance to it. And there's an art of noticing really incredible things in London. And when I just stop and breathe and open my eyes and receive that, I'm like, okay, this is why I love it.
